Chaser Zaks You can be ok with 10L if you like.

I'm going to make PBR content that's 2k using 4 x 1024 textures for every channel.

Hope you're still ok !!

This is why I feel like 2k uploads should have no discount at all.

Cackle Amore It appears you're working on the assumption that bigger textures are somehow a bad thing. This isn't actually the case.

2k textures when used correctly offers a boost to viewer scene load performance by allowing far more data to processed and loaded with fewer steps, they will even speed up rendering.

The number of files is a problem, not the amount of data. Every texture file that SL loads has significant processing overhead.

SO ..

1 PBR texture at 2k resolution is 4 image files and 1 face.

1 PBR texture at 2K resolution using tiled 1K texture is 16 image files and uses 4 faces. The end result is visually identical, yet this mess is cheaper to upload, far more work for the viewer to process and render, worse for the net code, and to top it off will even consume more VRAM.

For added amusement, we're getting GLTF scenes, objects can have unlimited faces and can have an entire regions build in a single blob.

Uploading one of those with 4 times the texture files will be significantly cheaper with very a little hackery required.

Shockingly terrible content just to save a buck is peak SL. This is what we do. Every time we're given the opportunity. There are popular products doing this right now.

Doing it right should be cheaper than doing it wrong on purpose.

Crush Cutie It's not that 2k textures are bad, but as you even say "when used correctly"

Sadly we already have 20 years of even 1k not being used correctly, and that's the part that worries me about the hit peoples loading and bandwidth usage is gonna take once we start getting toenails with 2k textures each.

Cackle Amore The viewer wont fully load textures unless you force it to. 2k textures on toenails .. should be fine. Really. Linden did more work on this recently.

Cackle Amore If it helps settle your mind, SL uses jpeg2000 compression on all textures uploaded as of god knows when.

It's an extremely aggressive compression algorithm, and is applied to all textures (barring reflection maps, I believe), so for most use cases, players will see a only a small bandwidth difference between 1k and 2k textures.

On paper it is a quadrupling of size, but quadruple the size of 60KB is still "just" 240 KB (assuming no other compression shenanigans reducing that), which happens as a one time transaction as it caches.

Functionally, for most people running broadband or better, the performance difference will probably not be noticeable.

Still... Use texture responsibly. You do not need a 2k texture for a small pebble or a rivet in your armour lol

Tenaar FeiriQuadruple, not double.

Zi Ree Ty corrected. My original point still stands though imo, effective bandwidth use probably won't rise in a noticeable way for most people, between compression, caching and whatever else is done to them.

Edit for context: I'm Norwegian. Uncapped data for broadband and fibre is the norm here & is something I've never had to worry about.

Galaxy Littlepaws That doesn't mean they're allowed to do that.

Crush Cutie I am going to take some heat here, but I disagree, actually should be more, 2k textures were once allowed in the past, they mainly were used by griefers (to crash viewers) and by some creators to "enhance" the quality of their products, these textures only produced lag (viewer side) making it difficult for users with less powerful machines to enjoy SL and they did not enhance the quality of the products (hard to "see" the difference a diamond with a 2k texture did on a ring, yes it was a thing), I think that LL brought them back because of mirrors, lets try to keep them for that and hike the price, SL is a business after all, or next we will see demands for running hot water on the viewer for PP, and yes, I am a creator.

xaka Chayoo Actually, I think everyone should be prevented from logging in SL just in case someone starts to troll and write on Canny that creators that have genuinely paid for Premium Plus membership based on the expectation texture upload would be free, should pay more than 10L for textures upload.

Kore Jardberg As I said, taking some heat for my opinion. I am not trolling, I try to think of less fortunate SL residents (hardware wise) when creating and also I try to to differentiate between privilege and entitlement. LL offers to PP the privilege of free uploads, except for mesh and 2k textures, when the PP plan was offered free texture uploads were a privilege offered, but 2k textures was not a thing yet, now, 2k textures come into the picture and SL being a business decided that some cost brought on by the 2k textures had to be offset, so they charge 10L to PP for the upload (should be 50L), if the point of contention is that 10L will "break" some creators than it should be revised, otherwise it now falls under a sense of entitlement, and thus wrong, PP brings with it privilege not entitlement. When forming an opinion on matters such as these I try to look at the bigger picture and not think "me, me, me", it helps.

xaka ChayooI I don't see this as we creators think we are entitled, we are paying almmost $300 (wth tax) real dollars a year for a service and part of that service was free texture uploads so we as creators didn't have a huge overhead while providing quality content. This is not a me, me , me situation,but rather I see it as counterproductive to the adoption of 2K textures for creators who would want to use them to streamline content images and a roadblock for creators who want to use them.

It also forces creators to use the beta servers, which then means we are not around to answer customer questions as we are not available on the main servers when those messages come in. I for one found this to be the most beneficial, as I can do my testing, not have to worry about my overhead, and keep my level of customer service up rather than being siloed on a server while testing and building, and not having access to my messages. This is not entitlement, but good business.

Dema Fairport Ok, lets speak creator (although your text is all me, me, me). As an introductory notice, I do my own mesh, my own textures, my own sounds, my own animations and my own scripts. Also as a starter, there is no instance, besides mirrors and maybe texture animations, where 2k textures will better your product, you will create viewer side lag and maybe stop more than half the SL population of enjoying a decent, hiccup free flow of images. Now as a creator, when mesh was introduced, LL prioritised mesh, delaying rezzing (deliberately) of prim and sculpts up of 10 seconds, when they (LL) started having problems with texture rezzing (this went on experimentally for 2 years) they messed with inter script messaging and script time allocation to prioritise textures. As a norm creators were using 1024 textures for everything, even buttons on a shirt, not one texture for all buttons, one texture per button, LL obliged by punishing scripts for the sake of texture rezzing. As a creator, without scripts all your goodies would be just nice texture holders, and yet, bring on 2k textures (that no one will be better off looking at) and lets punish scripts again for the sake of rezzing 2k textures. As a creator I want my clients to buy a product they can enjoy without having to wait 30 sec for it to rez and I want the scripts to run properly without having to issue updates because LL messes with timing again. Now as to what was promised to PP, yes free upload of textures, 2k wasn't in the picture yet, SL is a business, they want to offset their costs, new product, new rules (actually I changed my mind, 500L would be more adequate), they are keeping their promise as to what was available at the time, other than that, it is definitely entitlement I am still waiting for a proper detailed case, showing where 2k textures will enhance an existing product and would warrant the viewer lag and messing with script timing that it would bring. As for customer service, I sometimes set my alarm clock to wake up at times agreed with customers to be able to help them, I offer top notch customer service even for my free products, if they are buying from me they deserve my attention, even if I am meshing, running animations or editing sounds, I make time for my customers, I only exist as a creator because of them, they are doing me a favour selecting my products, not the other way around. Entitlement comes under many disguises, being able to self check oneself is hard, but imperative.

Anyway, this was about failure to inform about charges, and not about "I am PP so I deserve". Sorry to all the "me, me, me" folks, the universe even if virtual goes beyond you.

xaka Chayoo Thank you for the long, rundown on everything YOU do. In fact, All I read was about was, what YOU do, and not about how the cost could affect creators, and how not disclosing it led to confusion. It is also sad to see you make assumptions about my business and ME based on no facts. You don't know me, or my business, and you obviously don't know I have been a big advocate for creators in SL.

Have a good day.

Dema Fairport You don't need the beta server to test textures though, that's what the local upload is for.

Or is that not something the default viewer has?

xaka Chayoo A lot of folks unfortunately don't realize how much of a resource hog textures actually are.

All those games reaching 100gb+ in installation sizes lately? A good chunk of that is from textures.

Baldurs Gate 3 when it had it's uversion 1.0.0 release was around 125gb.

2/3rd of that size was 80gb's worth of texture files.

xaka Chayoo Only we're not asking for running hot water on the viewer for PP, because PP never advertised that it would have running hot water as part of the offer. It did, however, advertise free texture uploads, which is why the new "caveat" is surprising. To call that entitlement is actually bonkers.

Just because you, as a creator, don't see the use for bigger textures doesn't mean that no products need it, as sometimes it's good to not think "me me me", you know.

arualblues Resident Well, let me explain the concept of "me, me, me", its not when you speak about yourself, its when you speak of your entitlement and damn everyone else, you failed to show or detail what product could benefit off 2k textures (hint, none really). I have seen PBR tattoos and toe nails so far, crazy, yes, more than 80% of users are unable to load, rez or have a decent frame rate (using firestorm or official viewer), the generalised use of 2k textures will only make it worse. The last time someone disregarded 80% of their user base and tentatively created a metaverse for the "few", they lost 130B$, ask meta. There is this fable of the goose with the golden eggs, apparently not well known at large or by LL. PP were offered a deal, yes, free textures, as of what existed at the time, new product new rules. From what I have observed of late LL works on perceptions (public opinion and who is offering opinion), it seams LL does not have "field" experience. Take me as an example, I have very few products on offer and all of no consequence, however 3 of the most popular products with users are made by me, for creators that sell them under their own guise, they approached me, I thought the products were innovative and helped them, I do a load of "pro bono" work, I mean, I did, now, its a dead duck, no more spending time on SL development besides the current workload, so when I offer an opinion (using perception) it has no weight. So good luck with SL, after my current commitments its just a dead end. Enjoy your free 2k textures.

xaka Chayoo You don't realize how much of your own argument is very much a "me me me" behavior, as you insist on imposing your own way of working on everyone else just because you are convinced that it's the only right one.

Also, you don't seem aware of the existence of any product larger than a toe nail. Have you seen buildings, by any chance? Big ones, with massive walls, which are, well, everywhere? Some of these utilize way more textures to simulate higher resolution, producing even more lag. Even clothing sometimes utilize more textures to be able to have a better resolution in, for example, embroidery. Creators are already doing this, just using more textures instead of one larger file. This means more lag, actually.

To quote Coffee Pancake up there, "1 PBR texture at 2k resolution is 4 image files and 1 face.

1 PBR texture at 2K resolution using tiled 1K texture is 16 image files and uses 4 faces. The end result is visually identical, yet this mess is cheaper to upload, far more work for the viewer to process and render, worse for the net code, and to top it off will even consume more VRAM."

I hope we can eventually enjoy free 2k textures, both as creator and as user, thank you for your good wishes.