Make Appearances Height = Prim Height
SarahKB7 Koskinen
Ever since Viewer 2 was released in 2010, Second Life's avatar height has never been accurate or equal to prim height.
Prim height had been the standard used in earlier Viewer 1 viewers before 2010.
Fifteen years later, we're now using Viewer 7, which still retains the false avatar height measurements from Viewer 2. Our modern avatar shapes are still taller than a comparable shape created from before 2010 in v1 viewers, or than a modern prim of same said height.
Try it for yourself:
- Download any of the v1-based SL viewers (such as Singularity Viewer or Cool VL Viewer) and experiment with making an avatar shape with a height equal to that of a 5'10" (177 cm) tall prim (Note: this should be done without wearing a shoebase)
- Change to a Viewer 7 based viewer and see how the described height in a v7 viewer using this same shape has increased, yet the prim retains it's correct height!
I propose that described Avatar Height in all current viewers (via Appearances menu) should be re-syncronised to the previous prim height as per pre-2010 v1 viewers.
Not only would this be more accurate, it would also be beneficial to those creators who build houses or other structures where ceiling and doorway heights matter.
Log In
Robynxre Resident
I did tests and my 1.83 m Avatar is precisely equal to a 1.83 m prim, well a pair of them with a prim on top to from a doorway like structure. Flat feet,
Sebastyne Alpha
They do match! In firestorm at least. It's just that you do have to take your shoes off and go flat feet and use meters, as the feet value doesn't include inches.
There was a version not long ago that didn't match avi height to prim height, but they fixed it! What are you all talking about?!
I obsess over this but they do match already. Just feet value is fractions of feet, not feet and inches, there's room for improvement there. Include inches in that value.
I don't know if it matches wearing any mesh avatar, but it matches maitreya, legacy and signature bodies for sure.
My instructions:
I'll add video soon.
SarahKB7 Koskinen
Sebastyne Alpha The mesh avatar worn over a bodyshape is not a factor. All attachments worn with a bodyshape are "phantom" and have no actual solid physical form or presence. The bodyshape is what matters, as it also defines the size of the bounding box. The bounding box is the physical part of an avatar which collides with it's surroundings. It's invisible and cannot be seen, usually.
Sebastyne Alpha
SarahKB7 Koskinen So you're talking about the bounding box height, measured by the scripts, not the height of the avatar when you rezz a box next to it and measure it that way? It matches. The bounding box is nothing to go by for sure, and it's not a good way to go about sizing your avatar.
But when you size your shape to the metric unit, the avatars do match the box size rezzed next to them. They match exactly. I remember trying some random mesh avatar that didn't match the prim box height, but for the most part they do. (Depending on where the head or body is rigged to I suppose it can alter the outcome.) Bounding box is irrelevant to me, but it would be nice to be able to work with scripts, but scripts could have a "grab shape settings" function to them which they currently don't.
Terveisiä, muuten. Hieno sukunimi. ;)
SarahKB7 Koskinen
Sebastyne Alpha I'm asking that the Appearances bodyshape editor be resyncronised to display a true avatar height.
Ideally, a barefooted 5'10" tall bodyshape should have a 5'10" bounding box and the bodyshape be of identical height to a 5'10" prim and be able to just about squeeze through a 5'10" doorway or opening. And for this 5'10" height to be displayed as 5'10" in the Appearances bodyshape editor.
At the moment (and for the last 15 years since V1 was replaced) the Appearances is displaying a slightly taller false height figure in the editor that is not the true height and needs to be resyncronised in all current V7 viewers.
Sebastyne Alpha
SarahKB7 Koskinen You're barking at the wrong tree here. What you want is the bounding box to match the shape editor's value, but that might not even be possible, given people's attachments, NOT so that the editor is set to show a false value that then suddenly doesn't match prim size.
The avatar height display in the Appearance Editor is accurate. It matches the size of rezzed prims EXACTLY by my experience. The bounding box does not match, nor do the scripts that measure the bounding box. (Every script also gives a different result by my experience.)
The door openings are tricky because you may have a slightly altered hover height (not gonna work) and your feet or hair might be blocking you, but I agree in theory that a 5 foot 10 avi should fit through a 5 foot 10 door.
I agree that the 5 foot 10 should appear correctly in the shape editor, which it does not, it doesn't show inches at all, so the measurement is correct, 1.77 meters is 5.80709 feet, or 5 foot 10 inches. That should be corrected to show a human-readable value.
The scripts should be enabled to grab the avatar's height from shape's metric value, and leave the bounding box alone.
But if you are building something that you want to do that exactly, to let certain height avatar's trough while leaving everyone else out, a script that would grab the Appearance Editor's value should fix that problem with a script door or something.
If you just want to make sure everything matches, rezz a 1.77 meter block and compare you avatar to it. It should match exactly.
Zalificent Corvinus
SarahKB7 Koskinen
Appearance Editor heights are and always have been and always will be, a guess, it doesn't KNOW where the top of your avatar's head is, or where the soles of your avatar's feet are.
All it knows is your bounding box height, and the two hover height settings, the one in your shape and the one in the viewer. THAT is IT.
Viewers that show a figure closer to "prim height" do so by guesswork, and using fixed additions based off empirical observation.
Typically, a "human sized" avatar will be about 17 cm / 6.4 inches taller than the bounding box, so just add that to the bounding box height and it should be good enough for users who are not obviously insane...
To do what you are asking, LL would have to alter the system to start checking bounding boxes on mesh bodies, and mesh heads so it can calculate the "prim height".
And since the reported height isn't JUST in appearance editor, it's a STORED value, that's updated EVERY TIME your client sends a change of current outfit notice to the servers, which means everyones height, would have to be re-calculated, not just when adding a system shoebase, or hit save while editing a shape...
But EVERY TIME they add or remove ANY attachment, including HUDS, because HUD attachment can easily be a rigged mesh deformer that makes you taller, or shorter.
THAT is going to add a crapton of lag to SL, all because YOU...
- Are a Viewer 1.23 obsessive
- Have no clue how any of this works
- Are too lazy to click one of Henri B's FREE height meters
Outstanding.
Zalificent Corvinus
Yes,
ABSOLUTELY
, we simply MUST
tell LL to waste time, effort, and money, on a project designed to appease people too lazy and stupid to use a free Prim Height meter, like the one given away by Henri, the maker of the V1 based CoolViewer.Also, ceiling and door heights mattering, is a non issue, as you use ACTUASL prim height measurements when building, one meter in the SL build tab is one meter in SL, is one meter in whatever 3d editor you are using to make your collada files, it's not affected by the damn appearance editor failing to account for your shoebase, or the gap between the bottom of your avatars hitbox and the ground ( so you don't make bump bump noises when you walk ) or the hitbox stopping at eye height.
I mean, we don't want them using resources for something that
ACTUALLY MATTERS
.Edited to add...
"Download any of the v1-based SL viewers (such as Singularity Viewer"
I'd rather stick forks in my eyes than use a based-on-deprecated-crap viewer like Singularity.
Tonya Souther
I put a lot of work into Firestorm once upon a time to make the prim height be what was reported in the shape editor. It should still do that, unless someone changed it.
Sebastyne Alpha
Tonya Souther It does.
Liberty Fairelander
Where is the downvote button when you need it? People already have ridiculously shaped avatars because they can't seem to understand proportions and you want those of us who have worked so hard on our avatars to perfect proportion to stretch them out to an absurd height or falsely be considered short? No thank you. How about they fix the size of the prim in the viewer you're using so it accurately reflects against the height of avatars??
The prim height in Firestorm does match the avatar height in the shape editor EXACTLY. Because they took the time to make that happen. What you are seeing is not those of us who are constantly called "short" being undersized. We are the actual CORRECT SIZE. When my avatar height says I'm 5'8" that is correct. And it's the same exact height I am in RL and never in my life has anyone called me "short" in RL.
When your avatar height says you're nine feet tall, that is also correct. And what that means is that YOUR avatar is messed up. Not mine. So stop trying to make your absurdly tall and, consequently, deformed avatars be the standard. You all have no idea how ridiculous you look at those heights.
Soap Frenzy
The height displayed in the shape editor is your avatars hitbox z axis size and it is actually the correct value.
Vaelissa Cortes
Soap Frenzy No, this isn't correct. While the height measurement displayed in the default Second Life viewer's shape editor is indeed taken from the Z axis of the avatar's hitbox, the avatar's hitbox itself ends around the avatar's eye level and does not reflect the height of the actual visible avatar model. This is a long standing and well known issue.
Several scripted height detectors attempt to fix this by adding an offset or multiplier to get a more accurate measurement. Viewers like Firestorm use their own calculations too, both methods result in a much more accurate approximation than going by the size of the avatar's hitbox alone. This can be verified relatively easily by measuring avatars against a prim and checking said prim's Z axis size.
It is such a simple thing to fix, but in usual Linden Lab fashion it has been up to the users to try and find their own work arounds. Avatar height goes hand in hand with the creation of a well proportioned shape, and well proportioned shapes both objectively look better, and work better with realistically scaled content. Working in a realistic scale makes building easier and results in much more realistic and immersive builds. It is also crucial for VR, and all revolves around having an accurate height reading for one's own avatar. Step it up, Linden Lab.
steph Arnott
The value is the bounding box, incidentlly avatar dimensions are akin to a cindy doll as in perpotionaly distorted, this is critical because the human brain is trying to make a 2D object 3D. Creating a 3D world on a flat screen reqiures a lot of visual trickery.
Sebastyne Alpha
Soap Frenzy The visible avatar is the same size as a block rezzed next to it in the same size. They are exactly right. So I agree the shape value is correct.
Hitbox? Is that the same as a bounding box, I'm not sure, but the bounding box is NOT the same size as the avatar, no, but to me it's not a huge issue although scripts would be nice if they could actually detect the visible height accurately. They should just grab the Appearance Editor's shape height value and be done with it, and ignore whatever shoes or hair avatars are wearing.
Leslea Aldrin
If this is done, what happens to all of the buildings/furniture etc already built? Will everything have to be edited?
nulshift Resident
Leslea Aldrin The actual size of everything will not change. This request is for the display error in the shape editor.
Kimberly Lemongrass
We need this change! We're tired of not having accurate avatar height measurements!
Hope Dreier
Pretty please with sugar on it.
codyjlascala Resident
please
Load More
→