Camera failing when travelling with companions though a parcel with vizibility turned off. | Voters

Camera failing when travelling with companions though a parcel with vizibility turned off.

tracked

CatalinaHunter Resident

I have searched for previous reports on this subject, but not found anything. Sorry if it has been discussed before. This is not recent, it has been around since I've been in SL. People complain about it, but why can't it be sorted out?
If you fly or sail a vehicle solo though a parcel where vizibility has been turned off, nothing happens to the camera position that has been programmed into the vhicle. But if you fly or sail with a friend or friends all sitting on the same vehicle, then the programmed vehicle cameras get messed up as you enter, and as you leave the parcel where parcel visibility is turned off.
As many estate islands have navigable water around them, and some estates (such as Tuarua Fiji) renting full sims, half sims and quater sims to residents, where some have vizibility on, and others have vizibility off, this is a real pain to sail though with friends on the boat. You have to reset the boat camera on entry, then reset it again on exit.
Is there no fix to this issue that can be applied to the sime, or automated in the boat scripts? if there is something, I'd gladly add it tothe vhehicles that I build.

4 days ago

CatalinaHunter Resident

Thank you vey much for tracking the post and following up. I hope that the issue can get resolved one day. If anyone needs boats to replicate the problem and to test, please let me know.

Maestro Linden

marked this post as

tracked

Thanks for the helpful information. I have filed 2 bugs :

https://github.com/secondlife/viewer/issues/3850 about scripted camera parameters being lost/reset unexpectedly
server#1799 about how other avatars seated on same vehicle disappear & reappear when crossing private parcel boundaries

CatalinaHunter Resident

Thanks Maestro for testing and taking the time to make the videos. You were lucky your cam just seemed to move forwards a bit. As Leonardis says below, sometimes it can swing around.
On my boats, you can reset the cam by typing 'c' in localchat. Select the Coclput cam by typing 'cc'. For interest, there is a bird cam too 'cb' and a back cam 'cx'.
You were just motoring on the sailboat, its uite slow. Type 'raise' to get the sails up and to go faster :) When we are sailing faster, you need to get the camera reset, so you press 'c' to get it fixed going in, ten 'c' again groing out.
I've been told that Michael Linden was aware of this issue. Perhaps he left some notes on the subject. I'm sending you a motorboat too for testing.

Leonardis Ducatillon

Maestro Linden I've also had  this problem, using multiple boats from "The Mesh Shop" store (in Dutch Harbor), when sailing in the same Estate you tested. I often sail with my brother in the same boat.
What happens to me is often just after crossing from one Region into the next as the skipper, my and only my camera rotates around about 180 degrees (occasionally 90 degrees) and ends up looking backwards where I have just been and no longer where the boat is going. If the boat I am using happens to have a camera reset button on its HUD or in a command, I then have to use that. If not, I have to use a camera HUD that re-takes control of the camera and forces it back to something usable for sailing. This can happen as often as every single crossing for me in that Estate you were testing in.
The same happens for my brother when he is skipper and I am passenger.
It also happens with vehicles from other makers, as Catalina says - her boats, airplanes both from her and other manufacturers too. 
I have boats by a different manufacturer (Isard) which I think must use some kind of scripted auto-correction for the camera; you can see it visibly "fighting" to get the camera back under control as the camera first tries to go backwards (repeatedly) and then is "yanked back" into default position by the script.
My brother and I both use Firestorm 6.6.17 (70368).
It is noticeable in that area that one can be sailing in Linden water up in Corsica and the moment we sail south into  that Estate with the privacy settings, the camera angles keep getting screwed up at each Region crossing. On emerging out of the Estate to the south-west, we're back in Linden waters again and the problem goes away.

CarlaWetter Resident

Worth noting that it affects prim cameras as well as scripted cameras. Scripted cams might have a refresh function if scripted well, but prim cams once lost require a re-sit which often enough is't all that possible.

Additionally it does not happen 'reliably' on all crossings, especially a static camera may survive the odd no-see parcel transit. Don't expect things to go wrong at once, but when you sail along certain sailing estates you'll reset camera all the time.

JaySea Cale

a long overdue fix needed

CatalinaHunter Resident

I'm using Firestorm 7.1.11, but this has been around for years. Other sailors and aviators can back me up on this.
It happens on all boat and planes from different builders. It is not vehicle dependant.
The boat usually has a follow cam set. This is the easiest to sail with. It is set in the middle of the boat's axis, say 9m behind at head height or just above. When you cross into a parcel, the cam shifts imediatly, and quite often you end up viewing from and odd angle, around waterline height and to the side. Certainly not one of the pre-programmed cams in the boat. The cam either comes back after a while, or in the came of my boats, I have a reset cam command of 'c' or 'cc', and that works.

CatalinaHunter Resident

I've sent you a boat. Use either the Cruising version (up to 4 avis), or the Racing version (only seats 2 avis). The issues only happen when there is the skipper and one or more passengers. Skipper only has no issues with cameras.

Maestro Linden

CatalinaHunter Resident: Thanks for the boat.  I sailed the same route and recorded some videos, one from the skipper's POV and one from the passenger's POV.
Skipper POV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hph84leq3rI
Passenger POV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9eChjkRXMM
Given what you say about this bug, I suppose the passenger video is the more interesting one.
I saw a surprise camera update in the passenger video at 1:53, which coincided with the avatar entering the private parcel.   The camera abruptly changes position from a few meters behind the boat to (apparently) just behind the steering wheel.  Is this the bug you're describing? 
Otherwise, the main awkward behavior was seeing the other avatar on the boat disappear and reappear after crossing each private parcel boundary.  This seems to be "expected", as the avatars don't cross the parcel boundaries simultaneously due to their seating positions in the boat - the avatars technically are on different parcels for a short period of time on each crossing.

Uggo Vieria

hello Maestro Linden, this issue has always been here and it happens only when the camera is taken by llSetCameraParams().  it is less obvious for the skipper because he is aligned with the boat axis so when the camera params are lost, camera goes back to fixed camera position defined in prim property, which is generaly close to the position obtained with camera parameters.
The second issue you mention is very annoying too, when travelling in an area with parcels with privacy enabled, other avatars in the vehicle keep disapearing, going to cloud, reloading and finally being visibles again, and again at each parcel border.
And there is a third one that is related to this. If any of the 2 parcels also has Restrict MOAP to this parcel, any media playing one a prim of the vehicle are stopped and need to be restarted and reloaded completely, which makes MOAP unusable on vehicules when they are moving.
For llSetCameraParams(), the only worakaround we have yet is to use a camera hud to set it, instead of a script in the vehicle. If llCameraParams() has been used from an attachment, it won't break with parcel privacy.
Unlike what is said above, it does not affect camera position set by prim property (which I will call fixed camera) but only llSetCameraParams().
It also happen that fixed camera gets borked on a bad crossing but it's another issue. In that case, it's the whole avatar that seems to have been rotated relatively to the vehicle (athough no rotation is visible) and in that case, even mouselook is wrong after the crossing. Mouselook can easily be fixed by moving the mouse, camera params if used can be reset and should work but fixed position can only be fixed by standing and re-sitting on the vehicle.
This last issue is not easily reproductible  since it only happens on a bad region border crossing but it probably has more chances to happen if the crossing conditions are not optimal (packet loss) and maybe forced with a tool like https://jagt.github.io/clumsy/.  But again, I don't think it's related to this one.
First issue for parcel with privacy happens each time and is the behiavior I've seen since parcel privacy was added.

Maestro Linden

Uggo Vieria: Thanks for the clarification about the 2 distinct issues.

Maestro Linden

When using a scripted camera, the 2 relevant UDP messages from the simulator are:

ClearFollowCamProperties: triggered by llClearCameraParams()
SetFollowCamProperties: triggered by llSetCameraParams()

I performed another test, sailing through the same regions while proxying the boat passenger's viewer through Hippolyzer. I observed that the viewer gets a single SetFollowCamProperties message when the avatar sits on the boat and the camera kicks in. The message looks like this:

IN SetFollowCamProperties [RELIABLE]
# ID: 1089
[ObjectData]
  ObjectID = 80fc07fe-c312-7dc9-7437-83f9ffca6fea
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'ACTIVE' #12
  Value = 1.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'BEHINDNESS_ANGLE' #8
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'BEHINDNESS_LAG' #9
  Value = 0.5
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'DISTANCE' #7
  Value = 8.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'PITCH' #0
  Value = 5.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_LAG' #6
  Value = 0.05000000074505806
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_LOCKED' #22
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_THRESHOLD' #11
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'POSITION_LAG' #5
  Value = 0.30000001192092896
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'POSITION_LOCKED' #21
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'POSITION_THRESHOLD' #10
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_OFFSET_X' #2
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_OFFSET_Y' #3
  Value = 0.0
[CameraProperty]
  Type =| 'FOCUS_OFFSET_Z' #4
  Value = 0.0

After sailing for a bit, I saw the same broken 'camera reset' behavior that was shown in yesterday's passenger video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9eChjkRXMM ) at 1:53 - for some reason, the viewer disabled the scripted camera. There were no ClearFollowCamProperties or SetFollowCamProperties messages to trigger this bug, so I believe this bug is purely viewer-side. As before, my repro viewer version was Second Life Release 7.1.12.13550888671 (64bit).

Maestro Linden

marked this post as

needs info

Maestro Linden

I'm not able to reproduce any odd camera issues with a freebie sailboat on marketplace. My avatars were connected using Second Life Release 7.1.12.13550888671 (64bit), and most of the sims were running Second Life Server 2025-03-03.13640255822.

I purchased this free sailboat from marketplace ( https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Free-Sailboat/17892979 ), and rezzed it at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Ascalapha/203/102/21
I had 2 avatars sit on the boat and sailed south toward 'aux Goullettes Isle'
One avatar was wearing this scripted HUD attachment, which announces in chat when the parcel visibility flag changed:

list landinforeqd = [5,0,6];
integer wasVisible;
default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        llSetTimerEvent(0.5);
    }
    timer()
    {
        vector p = llGetPos();
        list d = llGetParcelDetails(p, landinforeqd);
        
        key id = llList2Key(d, 0);
        string name = llList2String(d, 1);
        integer visible = llList2Integer(d, 2);
        
        llSetText((string)p + "\nid=" + (string)id + "\nvisible="
            + (string)visible + "\nname=\"" + name + "\"", <1,1,1>, 1);
        
        if(visible != wasVisible)
        {
            llOwnerSay("Parcel visibility flag changed from " + (string)wasVisible
                + " to " + (string)visible + ". Current parcel is " + (string)id
                + "\"" + name + "\"");
            wasVisible = visible;
        }
    }  
}

The boat passed through some parcels with avatar visibility disabled, such as:

When crossing into the visibility-disabled parcels, the only hint (aside from the scripted HUD announcing the change) was that the other avatar sitting on the boat would briefly disappear and reappear - apparently because they were crossed the parcel boundary at a slightly different time. Both viewers showed their own avatar and the boat consistently. I did not observe any wonky camera behaviors.

CatalinaHunter, I have a few questions for you:

Which viewer are you using?
Are you able to reproduce the wonky camera behavior when using the same freebie boat that I tried? If not, can you point me to a boat that does reproduce this issue?
What does the broken camera behavior look like? Does the camera stop following your avatar when it becomes broken?

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