Can't return encroaching objects on BlueSteel regions?
tracked
Qie Niangao
In the two BlueSteel 2024-07-22.10048683488 regions where I can test (Tenera and Eagan), I cannot return objects encroaching from land on those regions, under conditions that seem identical to successful return of objects encroaching from Second Life Server 2024-06-11.9458617693 regions. It appears that the problem depends on the encroaching object being on the BlueSteel region because I also cannot return those objects when they encroach onto parcels on a non-BlueSteel region (Crumbi), and I
can
return objects encroaching into
BlueSteel from the non-BlueSteel region.Weird thing though: I had the same problem a week or so ago when these BlueSteel channel regions were running 2024-06-11.9458617693. So maybe it's some region-specific configuration thing, not the server software itself, perhaps only coincidentally set for these regions on this channel? Perhaps supporting that theory, as I was testing today, I noticed the region environment sun angle was quite different on these BlueSteel regions than on their neighbors, which probably isn't in the simulator code per se.
ADDITIONAL INFO: Today, Wednesday August 7, after other RC channels updated to 2024-07-22.10048683488, I tested on Tussock and Foxglove (Ferrari channel) and Epirrhoe and Tuliptree (Magnum) where this did
not
replicate but it's still happening on Tenera and Eagan, BlueSteel regions which also restarted today. Unfortunately I don't know of any other BlueSteel regions from which I could return encroaching objects to see if it's just some weird fluke of those two.Log In
Tetsuryu Vlodovic
Well I can't return my neighbor's mountains, I've filed an abuse report and nothing's been done, I've contacted support and nothing still's been done. Is this going to be fixed anytime soon?
Maestro Linden
tracked
Maestro Linden
I did some more poking, and was able to identify what went wrong: a version rollback on BlueSteel RC on July 17 triggered a bug which reset the
allow_return_encroaching_object
status on affected regions from TRUE to FALSE. Mainland regions had the option set to TRUE, so they were all affected by this bug.In addition to not wanting
allow_return_encroaching_object
to revert to FALSE unexpectedly in the future, we also want to restore the affected mainland regions to the TRUE state that they originally had.Maestro Linden
Hi Qie Niangao, I think I might see the problem. Parcel encroachment is toggled as a region setting via the sim debug console, with these 2 queryable variables (also detailed in https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Parcel_encroachment ):
allow_return_encroaching_estate_object
Allow land owners to return an Estate Manager's object that overlaps their land.
Read-only
allow_return_encroaching_object
Allow land owners to return a regular object that overlaps their land.
Read-only
- In 'Tuliptree' (RC Magnum region where you noted parcel returns are working on encroaching items) the settings are:
> get allow_return_encroaching_estate_object
allow_return_encroaching_estate_object = FALSE
> get allow_return_encroaching_object
allow_return_encroaching_object = TRUE
- But in Tenera and Eagan (BlueSteel regions that you observed returns were hitting permission issues), the settings are:
> get allow_return_encroaching_estate_object
allow_return_encroaching_estate_object = FALSE
> get allow_return_encroaching_object
allow_return_encroaching_object = FALSE
Regions having allow_return_encroaching_object=FALSE would of course explain the failure of the return attempt. Can you confirm whether this flag explains all the cases of the issue?
If this flag _is_ to blame, our next step is to see why it's set inconsistently across mainland regions. I don't think LDPW intended to disable encroaching prim returns for certain regions; I think a more likely explanation is that the flag became disabled by some past simulator update which only made its way to Bluesteel RC and not the other channels.
Qie Niangao
Hi Maestro, thank you! Mainlanders like me aren't so familiar with the sim console, and indeed that region setting explains all the data I have about regions unwilling to return encroaching objects. Two further points of interest about the Bluesteel RC relationship:
First, the three Bluesteel region I tested here not only all have that encroaching_object anomaly, but also EEP settings that don't match the neighboring regions. Sorry, I have not had a chance to dig deeper into what their EEP settings actually are but informally when I check they seem to be fixed at something like midday. It seems too much to be coincidence.
Second, I just today learned the identity of another Mainland region, Oedo No, that's
not
BlueSteel but does reject attempts to return encroaching objects, and it too has "allow_return_encroaching_object = FALSE". (This was actually was how I got pointed down this rabbit hole, in a Forums thread: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/513922-neighbor-boldly-encroaching-land/ . Maybe the sim console information will help with a support ticket to get some practical stuff resolved for that thread, but I wanted to mention it here because it's one case of the anomalous setting that is not
related to a (current?) Bluesteel channel assignment.Again, thanks for resolving this!
Maestro Linden
under review
Ellie Linden
Hey Qie, thanks for the information!
I am unable to replicate this behavior on 2 BlueSteel 2024-07-22.10048683488 regions in these order of operations:
- Set up a parcel owned by my other account with the same options settings you have set on your parcel on Tenera and Eagan.
- Have another user rez a basic 2m box in a neighboring parcel along with neighboring region that is also on BlueSteel, and moved the box into the parcel to encroach the object.
- The account that owns the parcel selects the object and goes to Manage > Return to return the object successfully with no error.
By any chance are you able to reproduce this same issue with a basic 2m box? If so, what is the exact error you are receiving, if you are receiving one?
In regards to your parcel on Miramare, I noticed that in your group Role settings that the Qie Niangao account is set under "Parcel Content" that it is has "Return objects owned by group, return objects set to group, and return non-group objects" unchecked. If you are testing with that account there in particular, that could be a reason it is behaving correctly there. However, if you are using a different account with a different group tag activated, try reproducing with a basic box there as well. If you can, please also provide the timestamps and the location of when you attempt to return the items again.
Qie Niangao
Hi Ellie, first let's talk about Miramare. I'm not sure what you mean about the Role in that Group ("Qie Labs") where I'm Owner and certainly have all the Parcel Content abilities enabled under that role. I'm in several other Roles, too, but that shouldn't matter… and indeed I can return objects for encroaching as long as they're rooted on Miramare itself, but if they're encroaching from the BlueSteel Grignano, I get the error "Removal of the object 'Object' from the simulator is disallowed by the permissions system." which I just replicated at 17:48 from an object at Grignano <101.009, 254.500, 27.332> while I was at Miramare <100.76510, 15.30748, 28.86599>. (That object had to be larger than 2m because it's a ways from my Miramare parcel to Grignano.)
In Tenera, my alt rezzed a cube on the parcel, made it 2m on a side, moved it to <246, 239.5, 78> so it still encroached, and trying to return it gave the same error at 17:57.
In Eagan, 2m object at <207.5, 71.5, 85>, error at 18:02.
Although my original report included behavior across region boundaries in order to track down whether it's a function of the sim channel where the
object
is located (it is) or where the parcel
is located (it's not), the basic error arises with both the parcel and object on the same BlueSteel region. It would be kind of amazing if the problem somehow does not replicate when the parcel and object are on two different BlueSteel regions, as I think I understand you found. (I'm pretty sure I have no land on one BlueSteel region adjacent another BlueSteel region so I can't test that.)Qie Niangao
Whoa, I found another BlueSteel region, Grignano, from which I should be able to return objects that encroach on my tiny parcel in Miramare, but it's forbidden as from the other BlueSteel regions reported above, and again the region default EEP differs from its neighbors. So that's further confirmation that there's something anomalous about BlueSteel, not the release that's common to all the RC channels today.